Printable/Downloadable Appendix Charts 1-6 A Vast Illusion Charts 1-6Download To print these pages, click the printer icon in the upper right corner of the document frame. To download, click the downward pointing arrow. Session 1 In our first class, we were introduced to the three parts of the split mind: the wrong mind, the right…
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17 responses to “A Vast Illusion Class Discussion Page”
Great, “A vast Illusion!”
Thanks to all of you, really all of us, who have
Created this Enriching Experience!
So I just shared in class,
Responding to John’s metaphor
About our misidentifying ourselves as bodies…
an animal, a pig…
Just wanna make it clear,
No offense to pigs or other animals! Hah!
It’s that his comment brought to mind from early childhood,
memories of the unhygienic conditions of pig farming in some places.
Trying to be funny! (Hah!):
Animal you…
Animal me…
Animal us…
(Imagining) Being a pig
Really motivates me
On the Forgiveness Path!
And a few minutes ago,
I wrote to John in Gratitude for the course. Gratitude to all, really!…
These lines came up:
Stars and Stars,
Of Joy and Peace…
And not of wars!
How lovely,
Thru Forgiveness,
To Lightly Clear
The hurdles
And the bars
(On the road
Back Home!)
Our 💜 Love to all,
Within The All!
John and Class,
OMG, I can’t believe it has taken me so long to get this!
In his comments on the ‘saving of time’, Ken says:
“Finally we note that the miracle is timeless, insofar as it does not obey the laws of time yet it occurs in “an out-of-pattern time interval.” Thus, the miracle actually occurs outside of time, though is experienced within it. This is its paradoxical nature, as is seen in principle 47”:
(T-1.I.47) 47. The miracle is a learning device that lessens the need for time. It establishes an out-of-pattern time interval not under the usual laws of time. In this sense it is timeless.”
(p. 153). Foundation for “A Course in Miracles”. Kindle Edition.
For me, this resolves the paradox (that existed only as an illusion in my mind) between the two notions of first, the script having already been written plus the time of the atonement having already been set, and second, the idea that through “right” decision-making, we can hasten the atonement by thousands of years. Using his chart 2, the time is set, but every time we choose a miracle, we move closer to that already set time. The time remains set, but we skip over thousands of years.
Really, this is so simple, how did it take me so long to grok?
Love you all!
Mary
So I listened to last week’s class again this morning. As I was listening, I was remembering how my experience during the class was much as Melanie described—a lot to unpack and think about. But as I listened this time I was able to just rest in it, not intellectualizing (Yay!) but for one point (Uh -Oh…)
…Ken Quotes the Course here:
(W-pI.158.4:2-4) Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. When experience will come to end your doubting has been set.
(p. 40). Kindle Edition.
In his explanation of this he says:
There is therefore nothing we can see there that is new, no choice we can make that has not already been made. And this of course includes the time when we will accept the revelation that the Father and Son are one.
(p. 40).. Kindle Edition.
He then goes on to explain the difference between the decisions of the observer (outside of the illusion) and the choices of the dream character (inside the illusion; effects).
My struggle was in trying to reconcile all of the above with the notion that we can accelerate awakening by habitually deciding for Holy Spirit. If seems to me that the notion that “there is no choice we can make…” and “the time you accept the revelation” convolutes his distinction between choice and decision. Isn’t the decision made outside of the script?
So here I was intellectualizing again, arguing with the Course. Not peace. But wanting a return to peace. I found the reference in my ACIM, and HS (through Robert Perry) gave me a footnote which took me to exactly what I needed to hear: Jesus says, in lesson 168:
There is no need to further clarify what no one in the world can understand. 2When revelation of your oneness comes, it will be known and fully understood. 3Now we have work to do, for those in time can speak of things beyond and listen to words which explain what is to come is past already. 4Yet what meaning can the words convey to those who count the hours still, and rise and work and go to sleep by them? 10 Suffice it, then, that you have work to do to play your part.341 2The ending must remain obscure to you until your part is done.
Peace restored. Thanks, HS.
P. S. Is that decision made outside of time?
Dear Mary, I just wrote another longish answer in response to your meaningful post and it did not send…I posted the last message “hmm…” to see if it makes a difference if I post in the blue box below, the one I am writing in right now. Indeed, it seems if I write in the box below, it does send, but if I click on the “Reply” button above (reply to your post), it does not send. Apparently my (maybe too detailed) comments on the book “Holy Science” were not meant to be posted at this time 🙂 I do look forward to John commenting on your question, “how does an awakened mind choose to descend into darkness yet again”? With lots of gratitude for this beautiful and dedicated community, Katharina
hmm…
Hmm…I just commented on Mary’s post on Sri Yukteshwar, talking about his book, “the Holy Science”, but it does not seem like it went through? So, I am just testing if it works now. Wishing you a lovely class tonight. I will be in European dreamland :-)So grateful for all of you!!
Katharina, Forgive me for asking this, but is it possible you did not hit the “Post Comment”? I ask only because I have done that. 🙂
John and Class,
In addition to Ken’s book, I have been reading Autobiography of a Yogi. In chapter 16, his guru, Sri Yukteswar, describes ancient Hindu astrology, in which Ascending and Descending arcs of time, each spanning 12.000 years & divided into 4 ages, repeat themselves. He describes the current age, which started in AD 1700, as a “2,400 year period of electrical and atomic-energy developments…” He describes the final period of this Ascending Arc, starting in AD 7700, as the age during which “the intelligence of man will be highly developed; he will work in harmony with the divine plan”. After that age ends at about 12,500, man begins his gradual descent into ignorance once again.
But then he says:
“Men, one by one, escape from creation’s prison of duality as they awaken to consciousness of their inseverable divine unity with the Creator.”
And an earlier comment from Sri Yukteswar underscores this point:
“God created each man as a soul, dowered with individuality, hence essential to the universal structure, whether in the temporary role of pillar or parasite. His freedom is final and immediate, if he so wills; it depends not on outer but inner victories.”
John, in this morning’s Unity service, you referenced a Hebrew philosophical understanding or belief in cyclical eras in time. From what I gathered, vast time periods range from total mindal darkness or ignorance, to enlightenment, and then the cycle repeats. In ACIM terms, all this would translate into vast cyclical periods of total ego (body) identification and periods of ascension into total spirit identification.
My question to John and class: are these ancient beliefs reconcilable with Ken’s presentation of time as one Vast Illusion, that we choose to re-“view” in each moment? How does an awakened mind choose to descend into darkness yet again? The descent into darkness occurred in a tiny tic of time, as did our salvation.
I would love to hear from my Mighty Companions..
Mary
Hey Mary, the question that you asked is not so easy to answer, and certainly not in a few brief sentences. But, nevertheless, I will try to do it some justice, while also attempting to keep my response as short as possible.
In order to answer your question about reconciling time’s cyclical nature, or yuga cycles, with the Course’s/Ken’s teaching of it being “a vast illusion,” we have to consider the “relative reality” of time.
As we are told in the Course: “Just as the separation occurred over many millions of years, the Last Judgment will extend over a similarly long period, and perhaps even longer.”
Now, isn’t this contradictory to the Course telling us that the separation never happened and the ego doesn’t exist, that “the world was over long ago,” that God’s Answer undid the separation in the same instant that it occurred, etc.? Yes and no.
Atonement and time are inextricably linked:
“[T]he Atonement saves time, but like the miracle which serves it, does not abolish it. As long as there is need for Atonement, there is need for time. But the Atonement as a completed plan does have a unique relationship to time. Until the Atonement is finished, its various phases will proceed IN time, but the whole Atonement stands at its [time’s] end” (p.75)
“The Atonement was built into the space-time belief in order to set a limit on the need for the belief, and ultimately to make learning complete.”
Until then time proceeds in its cyclical nature. The bright and dark ages/yugas will be experienced according to our mental state, knowing that our environment is “an outpicturing of an inner condition.” We are born into the cosmic climate/classroom suitable to our soul’s nature and the lessons needing to be learned.
Jesus says, “It is in your power IN TIME to delay the perfect union of the Father and His Son, for in this world the attraction of guilt does stand between Them. Neither time nor season means anything in eternity. But here it is the Holy Spirit’s function to use them both, not as the ego uses them.”
So, as its been said: The ego can prolong and delay the union between us, who believe we are in time, and God by having us preserve guilt feelings. The more allegiance we have to the ego, the darker the age/world we will appear in.
However, as the Course teaches, our union with God is inevitable. This is where the Course sets a limit on the “endlessly recurring rounds of rebirth” that you will find in most Hindu and Buddhist teachings. Eventually all the separated sons will come home. That means all will eventually encounter a Satya Yuga experience, which is the “real world” where God can then take the Last Step.
In the above quoted passage where the Correction is said to possibly take millions of years (The Real Meaning of the Last Judgment, p.105) time is presented as being totally malleable. That means we can stay on the revolving wheel of Ages for incredibly long periods of time, or we can undergo a “speed up.” In mentioning the speed up, Jesus says that it can even happen now, in our current age, if “a sufficient number of people become truly miracle-minded.” We can experience the effects of the Satya Yuga now!
Once awakened, the mind will not descend again, as a separated entity. It may, as an extension of the Atonement, bring help and support to its seemingly separated brothers still caught in the lower yugas of separation, but never will it forget its Self.
That’s about all I have time for. Hope that helps a bit.
Yes, thank you for your thoughtful response. I am going to sit with it for a while. This is a very big subject. I have follow-up questions.
August 20, 2025
Mary, I had not read your mention of Schrödinger’s cat before class so I was delighted to see that we were on the same wave link!!!
My question for you, John, is about the decision maker. Is that my real self that was created by God before the split? So, does the decision maker see both ego and Holy Spirit holograms?
Hey Pam,
Yes, we were on the same wavelength. One Mind.
So tell me, what is the trick to typing an umlaut over a letter? Mary wants to know.
I realized later that it should have been wave length but wave link can work as well!! lol. I have no idea how the umlaut got there. I guess it’s a God thing.
Hey Pam,
According to the Course, the decision maker IS the split. It is referred to in the Course as “the separate Son of God,” or “the Son of God in sickness.” That means that decision making is not our natural function. Prime Creator created us to create. The tiny mad idea made us into decision makers so that we could experience Dream Time. There are no decisions to make in Reality. God IS.
The decision maker chooses which hologram it wants to experience. Each choice either increases the need for time (ego hologram), or lessens the need for time (Holy Spirit hologram).
I love this!
I don’t know if Ken is going to discuss quantum physics at all, but his explanation of “the script is already written” seems to me to be a Shroedinger’s cat sort of explanation. Is the cat inside the box dead or alive? Both, until you make your observation. Consciousness decides which probability to make “real”.
That is the only way I have ever been able to reconcile the concept of the script already having been written with the notion that at every moment I am making a real, consequential (all thought produces form at some level) choice for either Holy Spirit’s thought system or ego’s thought system. This book is telling me yes, that is a workable way of understanding it.
It also illuminates, or maybe just underscores, the idea that we are always only forgiving ourselves and others for what we did not do.
He almost gets to the quantum explanation with his reference to Jane Roberts (Seth) “probable realities” in this passage:
Q: To return to the Seth books, there was an interesting account of Jane Roberts and her husband sitting in a restaurant. As they looked across the table at each other they both recognized that what they were seeing were their “probable realities.”
Wapnick, Kenneth. A Vast Illusion: Time According to ‘A Course in Miracles’ (p. 24). Foundation for “A Course in Miracles”. Kindle Edition.
I’m totally with you, Mary! The quantum mechanical model, the little I know of it, does allow for the simultaneous existence of all probable realities (superposition). The observer effect is the deciding factor (pun intended) in how the fabric of space-time arranges itself, at least to some degree. The fascinating thing about this is what Jesus mentions in chapter 5 of ACIM in the section on karma, that each instant is an entirely new instant, completely free of the past. It is only our “repetition compulsion” that has us viewing the next instant as if it seamlessly resulted from the previous one. “I see only the past” (Lesson 7). “My mind is preoccupied with past thoughts” (Lesson 8). The ego is fully committed to linearity. That is how the mind imprisons itself.